Readers in focus: How the HAAS media group is shaping the transition to digital content.

Christian Kallenberg: Welcome to the Digital Publishing Deep Dive from sprylab technologies and We LikeMags. My name is Christian Kallenberg and Benjamin Kolb, managing director of sprylab technologies, sits across from me again today. Hi Benni!

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Benjamin Kolb: Hello Christian!

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Christian Kallenberg: Benni, this time - after it was a bit theoretical last time with Professor Seeger - we have gained someone from practice, because today we have Mark Wittland, publishing manager for private customers and paid content at the HAAS media group.

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Benjamin Kolb: Yes, it's really exciting and, above all, relatively unusual for us. Not remotely at all, but everyone sitting at the table. I'm really looking forward to that.

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Christian Kallenberg: I'm looking forward to it too and that's why we're starting right now. Lots of fun Hi Mark!

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Mark Wittland: Hi Christian, hello Benni.

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Christian Kallenberg: Mark, when I spoke to friends from the industry, they said: Mannheimer Morgen, they know that, but the HAAS media group behind Mannheim Morning was not known to everyone. Would you like to tell us what does the HAAS media group actually do?

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Mark Wittland: Yes, the HAAS Media Group is a regional media group in Baden-Württemberg and Hesse. We have 5 daily newspaper titles in our portfolio. Mannheimer Morgen is in fact the biggest and most well-known title. This is also our headquarters. And we also have the Schwetzinger Zeitung, Bergstraesser Anzeiger, Fränkische Nachrichten and Südhessen Morgen as daily newspaper titles in our portfolio. Very different titles with different distribution areas. So it's more like urban Mannheim and then it's very much into rural areas with the respective strengths and challenges that you typically have there. And yes, there is also a portfolio of radio investments. We have more magazine products and there is a whole range of B2B services in the area of marketing, agency and printing services.

Christian Kallenberg: You are the publishing manager for private customers and paid content for the entire group. And as you have just presented, with the different regional focal areas, I imagine this to be a very, very broad task. Is that so?

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Mark Wittland: That is so. Exactly, we support the title center from Mannheim in the readers' market area. This means that sales and marketing are a focus here. Customer service and customer loyalty are important topics here. We have a benefits program/customer loyalty program, which includes another 20,000 subscribers. This is a topic that we work on as a team. And in addition, the entire area of digitization of the subscription business is an absolute focus for us. To this end, we have also created new areas in the reader market. Product management and web development are new teams that have now been added and are then always an integral part of the reader market and there is the idea that they then also work very closely with sales marketing and other teams.

Christian Kallenberg: How did you approach this multitasking task?

Mark Wittland: It was an exciting task and an exciting move for me, on the one hand the task of being responsible for the classic reader market and also rebuilding the digital sector. And as a HAAS media group - this now affects not only the reader market, but the entire company as a whole - we set out there 2 or 3 years ago to actively accept the challenges that exist in the industry, which are also quite serious, I say, and to really turn the relatively classic print-oriented media house into a company based primarily on digital business models.

Christian Kallenberg: How is your area specifically organized there?

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Mark Wittland: My area, we have just under 50 people in my department, that's four teams. First of all, that's sales and marketing. In other words, the colleagues who take care of sales marketing, the entire subscription business for the Print, E-Paper and Digital Plus products. Then it is a team that takes care of all customer service/customer loyalty measures. It also includes our own customer service center, our own call center, which we have at the location. And then there are the digital sectors. In other words, it is product management, which basically covers all tasks relating to our digital portals and products, and web development, where we then also implement large parts of our technical development in-house.

Christian Kallenberg: And I assume you've just mentioned it, the challenges you're facing are similar to those that prevail in the industry as a whole. Especially for regional publishers, it's a bit complicated in print, isn't it?

Mark Wittland: It's complicated in print and it's likely to get even more complicated. Of course, our challenges are similar to those of almost all players in the industry. We are confronted with extreme cost increases, energy costs, production costs, the whole issue of logistics is of course a huge issue. As print runs fall, delivery is becoming more and more expensive. That is why the focus, the digital subscription business, is the absolute focus for us.

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Christian Kallenberg: But I would also be interested in that now, how are you tackling it? But maybe Benni still has a specific question.

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Benjamin Kolb: Exactly, what does the solution to the whole challenge actually look like? Especially in an area of private banking, it is the case that many publishers are difficult to advertise in the direction of how can you strengthen their subscription models. This means that most people now actually go on subscriptions, which may be divided into different groups. There are still the print subscribers that you have, who may be a bit less, but who you may also be able to convert. What is your strategy there?

Mark Wittland: We have two main areas of focus, which we are looking at. One is how do we bring our existing subscribers, i.e. long-standing subscribers, into the digital world and the second point is, of course, how do we address new customers, new target groups with new products. I might start with the first point. With our existing subscribers, it's the case that we took the step a year and a half ago that we said that there is actually no longer a pure print subscription, but that all print subscribers get the entire product portfolio in one package. In other words, a complete subscription, where the e-paper is included, where Digital Plus is included, where news apps are included and other products. And this is of course very much about getting these subscribers more involved in digital use. This means that we take a very close look at how do we get them to register for the digital products in the first step and then increasingly get into use. This is a long-term, very long-term task.

Benjamin Kolb: Where are you now, when you go from 0 to 100%, where are you there after a year and a half?

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Mark Wittland: After a year and a half, around 40% of our subscribers, our print subscribers, have now registered for the digital product and are using this product. There are various aspects involved. One is, of course, usability. There are once again particular challenges for this target group in particular. How do I get them into the processes well? E-paper plays a very important role for us here. In principle, transferring the print layout to digital is of course a first step. There are other topics, such as read-aloud function, how good leadership through the processes play an important role for the customer.

Benjamin Kolb: What do you expect as a goal? So now you're at 40%. I don't think you think you can digitize 100%. How much do you write off?

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Mark Wittland: I can't even say how much we write off. I think it's realistic that we're already getting two thirds of the customers we have now into good digital usage. For example, something like added value that you don't have in print also play an important role. Last year, we introduced such a digital Sunday newspaper, i.e. a genuine seventh edition of an e-paper that was no longer printed. And of course I can always point that out nicely and that is added value, for which customers socialized in print then register in the e-paper and then use it.

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Benjamin Kolb: Do you have any other added values that we have in mind? Something like that, for example, about engagement with your products that goes beyond just reading articles?

Mark Wittland: Yes, absolutely! So the whole topic of interactive puzzles, games plays an important role. These are also added values that even more classically oriented customers register for and then use. A topic such as podcast also plays a role here. These are also things that virtually our print readers do not typically come into contact with so directly. And then integrating these products well into this e-paper app so that I can start them directly from the app, from the e-paper app, that actually makes a lot of difference when it comes to activating customers and then keeping them permanently in the product.

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Benjamin Kolb: These are investments in the future and that brings a lot, you said. Now the exciting question is, how much is that worth? So what is the conversion to such enhanced features that such a product has?

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Mark Wittland: That is also an issue that must be considered in the long term from our point of view. It's really about us looking in the first step, I have good use in this premium product, in the digital products and then we see that many people actually switch to the e-paper in the second step and then become virtually digital-only subscribers. And that's where we're already seeing continuous conversion. At the moment, 15% of the total subscription base have become purely digital subscribers.

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Benjamin Kolb: Now we've talked a lot about print and e-paper subscribers and maybe expanding the product. What about the other side of your subscribers? I'm sure you also have a plus model on your websites. What is your strategy there? And is there also a strategy to somehow marry the whole topic? Because as a publisher, I don't think you can plan for the next 100 years with two different target groups as far as readers are concerned, right?

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Mark Wittland: We actually believe that we are actually planning for the longer term with two different product lines and target groups. We really see this as two different approaches. That we say, on the one hand, that we have print socialized readers and, on the other hand, new target groups, younger target groups who actually no longer really grew up with print on an everyday basis, so to speak. And that's why we're already seeing two very, very different approaches. One, the curated completed product and, on the other hand, the Digital Plus news stream, where we then try very hard to address new target groups. And when it comes to Paid Content Digital Plus, then we are of the opinion that we can of course no longer go there and offer a one-size-fits-all product for them, but must also go into personalization very, strongly, both in terms of editorial content and then also in terms of sales communication. And we've been there for 2 years now. After the relaunch, we then introduced paid content for us. For us, this is a high focus, then further develop the business model and take a very close look at which users do we have on the pages and how can we address them accordingly? The whole issue of loyalty plays a major role here. So how often do users come to the site, how do they use the products. The second is the whole topic of content. So which topics are they interested in. The third aspect that plays a big role for us is, I'll say, the subscription status. So which products do they already have, for example. Do you already have any kind of customer relationship via the free newsletter or something similar. Based on these three components, we play content on our pages in a very individual way.

Christian Kallenberg: Would you like to say where you stand in terms of number of subscribers?

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Mark Wittland: We now have almost 4,000 Digital Plus subscribers at Mannheim Morning. We would have liked to be even faster there. However, this has now accelerated significantly over the course of this year. We are therefore completely satisfied with the figures and still have ambitious goals for the next few years.

Christian Kallenberg: When you say it has accelerated significantly this year. Was there any specific trigger, or is it simply a coincidence or simply the result of your excellent work?

Mark Wittland: Well, there is no single trigger. From my point of view, there are a whole range of topics that need to come together somewhere. From my point of view, there are really a lot of small particles in the cooperation between sales, between products, between editors, which have to develop there and that these things then come together. And I believe that really developing this target group-specific approach and users really plays a very important role. So, let's look very closely at which users are, for example, Flybys, who then only very rarely come to the pages somewhere, how do we get them in increasingly intensive use so that they come to the sites almost every day and that we then make them the right offer. And on the other hand, where do we have subscribers, for example, who have relatively low usage, i.e. who do not have good loyalty. These are, of course, customer groups where we have a risk. How can we address them specifically with content offers and then keep them permanently subscribed. So, this whole issue of durability, retention of subscribers is almost the biggest challenge with us right now, as getting people on a subscription for now.

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Benjamin Kolb: What do you do with people who are subscribers and who, in your opinion, use your products far too little?

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Mark Wittland: We are also trying very hard to automate this so that there are corresponding newsletters or similar offers, where we then communicate the added value of actively addressing people, i.e. push function. To see if the usage is not what you would normally like with a subscriber, that we then try to actively draw people's attention to exciting new topics, including content that could potentially interest them, and then activate it again and again and then keep it in use.

Benjamin Kolb: Do you have an offer for print readers who you have taken with you into the digital world, but who may also be interested in premium content or your online articles? So is there a kind of mixed subscription or do you then have access to it in general?

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Mark Wittland: That's when you generally have access to it. This means that the premium subscription really includes all digital added value.

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Benjamin Kolb: Have you ever measured how large this intersection is?

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Mark Wittland: At the moment, that's around 40% who also use the digital products of our full subscribers.

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Christian Kallenberg: You also have another advantage that other publishers don't necessarily have. I'm thinking of your benefits program from Mannheim tomorrow, where people are already used to paying money for digital content. That would probably also be an idea to include that, right?

Mark Wittland: Absolutely! So the benefits program, you have to say that it has existed for a relatively long time, used to be really very print-oriented, so it traditionally worked with a supplement that you have in the daily newspaper and we have now taken on many activities to make this more attractive for digital subscribers and to link these things more closely. For example, you used to have a physical card, but today the whole thing is also available in the app, that I can basically open the card directly from my news app and then show it to a partner or something similar, for example, and get corresponding benefits in return. In addition, there are other purely digital advantages that you can then also use with the card, and that's when we try to connect these worlds ever more closely.

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Christian Kallenberg: And what did you say, how many are in the benefits program?

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Mark Wittland: There are currently 20,000 subscribers in the benefits program, who receive this in addition to their normal subscription from us, which is also around 25% of our total subscribers.

Christian Kallenberg: Great basis from which you can draw. What else would interest me about the age structure of readers, where it is not possible to digitize them, do you have any insights where they say: “Ok, at that age, hops and malt are actually lost, it is no longer worthwhile to make new offers because experience has shown that they don't come along anyway?

Mark Wittland: In our opinion, in our experience, it is actually not an issue that can only be broken down to age. Well, we believe or that you know that we also know through direct contact with customers that there are definitely people in every age range who are interested in digital products and then use them. In particular, the e-paper on the tablet also offers me usability, which in many places is almost better than that of the daily newspaper and that, I think, is really about the introduction that you have to do with the subscriber. This can also happen through training, training, of course, this can also happen in sales via a bundle of subscription plus hardware and there are a whole series of measures that we are looking at. That's why we're not saying that this primarily only has something to do with age.

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Christian Kallenberg: You said earlier: goal of two thirds. The elephant standing in the room for a bit is that other third. So is it worthwhile or is there somehow - you don't have to answer either - but is there such a plan as to when such a wrecking edge will come at some point?

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Mark Wittland: Yes, so we're looking at it very closely. That is also a big issue in the industry at the moment. In which delivery areas can I still deliver to cover costs, for example? You have to say that overall we are still doing quite well with our delivery areas there in the southwest. But of course it is the case that we are still looking at where, for example, people are then switched to e-paper

Benjamin Kolb: And do you think there is a tear-off edge at all, or do you think that print will outlast us in any form?

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Mark Wittland: Well, we do believe that there will still be some form of print for a very, very long time. But that will change significantly.

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Benjamin Kolb: If print is only there for a third, is e-paper with a print layout even a product goal that you have to have? Because you imitate something afterwards, which is now kind of cooler on paper than on the tablet. Because the tablet is just not as big as the paper. Shouldn't it be the other way around then? So don't you have to do that thing for digital and then there's just a print version of it that looks a bit different from today's newspaper?

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Mark Wittland: Yes, I think it's going to mean that you have very different products that benefit ever more specific target groups. I do believe that the classic print layout as we know it will still play a role in e-paper for a long period of time. This will certainly include automating such layouts and the development of such layouts even more in the future and working even more resource-efficiently here. But I do believe that this product will also be relevant in the longer term. There is also the topic of Digital Plus, where we really have a different usability, have different target groups and there will certainly be other digital products in the future. Well, these are of course also topics that we are thinking of now, such as from the current Digital Plus product, which is in principle a product. How do I manage to make various other offers again, even with different price points, which can then also appeal to other target groups.

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Christian Kallenberg: We're a podcast here and I've seen you have very, very many podcasts. Is this perhaps also an approach for trying to monetize podcasts alone again?

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Mark Wittland: We will also be looking at that in the future. At the moment, we are even more focused on expanding our range, experimenting. It's about brand building and customer loyalty right now. But this will certainly be an issue again in the future, what role can these podcasts also play in the paid content product and which content is freely available and what is then also shown as part of a subscription.

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Christian Kallenberg: Benni, maybe you can say something about the future of print? Because one of your customers is the Hamburger Morgenpost, which has just announced that it will now become virtually a weekly newspaper, at least in print. What does that look like there? Can you reveal that how the workflows are in terms of Digital First and Print Second or in fourth, fifth place?

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Benjamin Kolb: As I think I can answer that in a bit general terms. Almost all of our customers are currently looking at how they create a digital first workflow. It's not that easy, but there are already appropriate solutions in the product sector, which, using artificial intelligence and analysis of newspapers that have already been printed for many decades, offer a solution for how to now bring articles that were formerly written in print onto such a newspaper layout. And that is very exciting, in other words very exciting for me personally, because this is an exciting challenge on the technical side, but it is of course an exciting challenge on the editorial side, because the print product naturally has a lot to do with prioritizing articles, finding topics, with priorities that you set and which you also have to set editorially in advance, because then you can't measure and change them afterwards. Instead, it is simply printed and that is therefore a completely different approach, which of course also has very high journalistic standards and which you don't want to simply give up.

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Christian Kallenberg: Ok, but before we talk about future collaboration between editors and publishers, let's just briefly focus on technology. Mark, you've already mentioned it, you too are involved in a process. I am thinking again of the benefits program from the printed newspaper, with print supplement, largely already digitized. But I can imagine that there are systems that have been used in the past, have been used very successfully, that can no longer do what they need to do. Where are you there and what is your goal?

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Mark Wittland: Yes, that is also a permanent process, the modernization of our systems. Here too, it is the case in traditional publishing, we used to depict a lot about SAP, which is really no longer being developed at the moment and where we of course look very closely and work a lot on how do we get the new technical development or our new processes well represented in the IT landscape. And that is actually also a focus of our work. It's about creating the entire funnel management, the technology behind the websites, behind the paid content product, CRM is a big topic. And then there are also significantly more flexible options when it comes to the entire presentation of subscriptions, so that we can simply also make flexible offers, offer modern pricing and all of these topics. And that is an ongoing process where we have not yet reached our goal, but where we are working very hard on these topics.

Christian Kallenberg: What about the editorial system? There's old and a bit newer. Where would you say you're standing there?

Mark Wittland: At the moment, we are also in the major relaunch and rebuilding project of our editorial system. Where we are currently creating the basis for working digitally first or channel-neutral and also creating the basis for implementing new processes in the editorial office. You've just mentioned that the print product here no longer determines the way we work and the rhythm in the editorial department, but we focus on the online product, on the digital topics here and then, at a certain point in the day, the print product is created from these digital processes.

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Christian Kallenberg: You spoke earlier about what it looks like for others. Is that a general way where everyone is going now or are there still customers who say: “No, we would like to keep two separate systems for whatever reason?

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Benjamin Kolb: I can explain our product strategy for our publishing solutions a bit. That is what we believe in. Well, we're not a print system. We connect print systems, which is why there is still a system that is more dedicated to creating print products. But our strategy is to have our editorial solution as a digital-first solution, so to speak, where other channels and now not only print, but also social media, web and app, of course, but also newsletters and so on are simply connected. That means we make a classic multi-channel publishing system. What we firmly believe in, is why we have cut it so slightly differently that there must also be platforms in the future that also provide end-user solutions. Just as it happened in the e-paper years ago, that you basically have an out-of-the-box solution that you can configure well, which then also makes brands look more individual, but which you simply don't rebuild every time just because you somehow launch a new brand. But where a lot of knowledge from many customers flows in, the features can be taken along and we then expand that to include the entire digital part, so to speak. That is, the news websites and so on are also launched on a platform. Because, and I think that is so little, the reason for our strategy is simply because we see that even with regional newspapers, which now have 30 brands because of me, the cost pressure is simply far too great that they are now providing over 30 web solutions, all of which are individual. Instead, the trend is very much to think of a great solution, which you then design differently for 30 brands. But they are also designed in such a way that they can simply come from a central office in terms of their entire layout and editorial workflows. Where everyone knows exactly how this works and how to increase these efficiencies, we have developed our product strategy and we see this across the board.

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Christian Kallenberg: Mark, how is it with you when it comes to collaboration only between the different editorial offices for now? Has anything happened there in recent years?

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Mark Wittland: Something has also happened there. So that's also where you grow closer together. In the end, it is also the case that we have a cloak that comes from Mannheim and also involves significantly stronger cooperation between editorial offices right now in the digital sector and then also significantly stronger cooperation with readers' market or product topics. And we simply have a lot of expertise, which we bundle to a certain extent in Mannheim and then make available to all editorial offices. It is also the case with us that we really run technologically on exactly the same platform with the five titles, so that we can also have a good exchange there.

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Christian Kallenberg: And what about the collaboration between editors and publishers? After all, does that also have to change in order to be able to successfully build digital products in the future?

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Mark Wittland: Absolutely! So we've already changed that a lot in the last two years. We've grown closer together there. This has developed from the first major relaunch project, which we did together from a project structure, and these are also topics that we are actually constantly looking at and then trying to develop further. This goes so far that we now also work very heavily in cross-functional teams, where editorial, where product, where technology, but also sales are then heavily involved. Where we develop topics together along the user funnel for the Digital Plus product, develop features together and then take a holistic look at this product as well. And this is also about the fact that editorial and publishing house come together to a certain extent under a common goal and focus on it. Our editorial team is now also looking very closely at subscription figures and that's when we make sure that we are developing it together.

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Benjamin Kolb:. It's Friday, you have to know that. Friday is probably the day we do most of our home business. Of course, I also know from our customers that when the pandemic started, they had some difficulties getting into the remote situation at all, simply technical hurdles. And now, of course, have to do with the fact that remote will simply remain for them. What is your strategy, as I say the whole topic of corporate culture and working remotely and so on?

Mark Wittland: Yes, that has indeed changed significantly for us as a result of the pandemic. We were traveling there in a very classic way before. Almost 100% of people actually worked in the company and we have now changed that very significantly. This means that we have such a rule that 60% are normally worked in the office and 40% remotely working from home. But there are also team-specific regulations, which are then even more different. And we're actually trying to combine the best of both worlds. And it can also look like, for example, that for web development that is organized in the Scrum process, it also works even more in the home office.
A major challenge for us — as for most other companies — is the issue of personnel. In other words, finding, developing and retaining the right people is becoming increasingly difficult and the topic of working from home and also the ability to have a larger search radius for new employees play a very important role for us. Well, it is actually the case that we now have a lot of people who are no longer even sitting or living at our location and who we integrate into the team there and that is of course an option now via remote work, which was very actively using.

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Christian Kallenberg: And you're a prime example of how it works, aren't you? Because we're sitting in the office here in Berlin, you live in Berlin, if I may tell you that. It works, doesn't it?

Mark Wittland: It works, yes. I'm commuting back and forth between the two worlds, Mannheim and Berlin. And that's why I'm living this out a bit in my department and that's probably why we'll have a bit of a different approach when it comes to office & home office.

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Benjamin Kolb: Have you ever had a moment when at some point, a year after a new employee started working for you and then you met him for the first time, you thought: “He is much bigger than I thought.”?

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Mark Wittland: Oh yes, I actually had that with several employees. Because it was really the case for me that I started in Mannheim in February 2020 and then we went into lockdown four weeks later. And that was always the case in stages for the first 1 or 2 years. That's why it was really the case for me that I didn't see a whole bunch of employees live until a few months later.

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Benjamin Kolb: And when you started it was definitely, or my guess, that it was the same with you as with many other publishers that there were simply at least silos. In other words, that the print editorial team had disconnected from or never connected with the digital editorial team. Has this changed as a result of the pandemic? Has this changed as a result of corporate culture change, change management?

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Mark Wittland: Yes, that's still a process, honestly, you have to say. We are now looking at how we divide up our space and change our office situation in order to enable more encounters there. For us, this will also mean that we will also work in a more flexible desk solution, reduce traditional workplaces and in return create more space for meeting rooms, workshops, meetings and the like. And we simply want to take this situation into account, when people are at home, it is more likely that you work very concentrated on topics. When you're in the office, the focus is on exchange, creativity, and another form of collaboration. For once, this is an issue in our readers' market. Of course, here too, it is definitely a challenge to connect and bring people together. It is also very important to us that we here in this process chain with the product, with the technology units, with sales, that we have a very good exchange here and also develop products there holistically and then, of course, we move on to the editorial department, where we also see here that we are working more in joint workshops here. And then develop products together here.

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Christian Kallenberg: I would like to come back to the topic of personnel recruitment. My impression is a bit that many publishers can't even find the people they actually need or are looking for. At least as far as young people are concerned, because there has been no training for this at all so far. So the training is still journalistic traineeship, you might get a bit of SEO and something like that and reaction systems explained. But the big picture is something you only ever learn at work. How is that with you and what is your perception?

Mark Wittland: Yes, I share the perception. That is also the case with us. We also have major problems filling some positions. In the past, we have now gone more and more to train people ourselves. For example, we have the case in web development that almost all people who are currently employed as developers have also completed training with us. This means that the focus on training people ourselves using the various systems that we have there is relatively large for us. This includes traditional training, including dual study programs, where people then study and are already with us at the company and who then join our teams strongly later on.

Christian Kallenberg: Do you actually read all of your products? Do you have to read them out of the box? So here in the morning for coffee first Mannheim morning, or what is that like?

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Mark Wittland: Well, I definitely read our products! Not all of them every day, there are too many for that. But of course I'm looking at what we have today, both in print and online. Because, of course, I'm already interested in what we do there.

Christian Kallenberg: Do you listen to the podcast? As I've probably already said, there are really many different formats.

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Mark Wittland: It's the same here too: I certainly haven't listened to every podcast we've done. But I like to see that we always have exciting topics there and I also listen to them.

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Christian Kallenberg: And you already told me in the preliminary talk that this is a podcast premiere for you today. It was the first time that you were a live guest in one yourself. I think you did a great job. Thank you so much for the many interesting insights. Benni, any anointing last words?

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Benjamin Kolb: I found the conversation really, really interesting. In particular, I find the deep insight that has given us, including figures and so on, super exciting. Thank you very much.

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Mark Wittland: Yes, thanks for the invite. I had a lot of fun!

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Christian Kallenberg: And if you like this podcast, I would be delighted if you subscribe to it on the platform of your choice. Until next time.